Runboard.com
You're welcome.
The Pagan Porch - a forum for Pagan Homesteaders and their friends

This board is now closed and read only. No new membership can be gained. Thank you for your interest.

runboard.com       Sign up (learn about it) | Sign in (lost password?)


Page:  1  2  3 

 
Saijen SilverWolf Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Registered user
Global user

Registered: 10-2004
Location: Upper North East Tennessee
Posts: 3871
Reply | Quote
Re: Christianity VS Paganism/Wicca


The only thing I see, and I may have interpreted it wrong, was the one thing that Texas actually put into a quote box.

The way I read it... and like I said, I may have misinterpreted what I was reading, but I don't think a Christian can argue the virtue or vises of Paganism/Wicca with any degree of [sign in to see URL] what they tend to hear or think.

Please tell me if I read that wrong.



---
Blessed Be,
~*~ Saijen ~*~

~~*~~ .~~*~~
6/13/2009, 1:07 am Link to this post Send Email to Saijen SilverWolf   Send PM to Saijen SilverWolf Yahoo
 
KaliMorgan76 Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Registered user
Global user

Registered: 05-2009
Posts: 64
Reply | Quote
posticon Re: Christianity VS Paganism/Wicca


Haven't hung out much with the Christians that are for Pagans having the same rights huh. emoticon It can seem to be a rarity but it is a growing movement. Heck some Christians are incorporating pagan religions in with their Christian religion and not just the Catholics. emoticon

I have some Christian friends who can literally argue the point that pagans are entitled to their religion and may know "God's" face as well as any Christian knows it. While other Christians aruge with them that not only are the Pagans going to hell but so are the Luke Warm Christians who support the right of Pagans.

Pagans can be guilty of this too - that there is no value in being christians - those who had bad experience's, etc. While other pagans support the right for others to be Christians and be unbothered for it.

I think both sides can argue the virtues and the vices of the other religion all day and never agree - just like pagans can also argue with Christians about the virtues and vices with each other about the religions. Those that argue are generally the moderates who just want everyone to get over themselves and get along. emoticon

I love the fact that there are so many differences in the Christian community and the pagan community that demonstrate that the saying no two people see it the same way is so true. If everyone was feeling/seeing the same thing there would not be any divisions in religion, etc. But the truth is we all see the divine and express it differently. Hence the thousands of different groups out there. The only ones that bug me are the ones who think they can honestly sell that I alone have the only path to God.



---
“Never think that whatever is around you is beyond your comprehension, no matter how complicated it seems.
To attain total freedom, learn how to undo the web of illusion that has convinced you that you are not free…”
6/15/2009, 12:00 pm Link to this post Send Email to KaliMorgan76   Send PM to KaliMorgan76
 
TexasMadness Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Administrator
Global user

Registered: 03-2007
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 3972
Reply | Quote
Re: Christianity VS Paganism/Wicca


Ah, I read it as they can argue THEIR virtues and the vices of the other.

But like Kali said, things aren't always so hostile...
6/15/2009, 7:09 pm Link to this post Send Email to TexasMadness   Send PM to TexasMadness
 
KaliMorgan76 Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Registered user
Global user

Registered: 05-2009
Posts: 64
Reply | Quote
Re: Christianity VS Paganism/Wicca


It can be taken either way but I have seen where you can see both sides arguing with each other or themselves.

I just posted on another forum the names of Christian groups that are open to pro-choice as well as accepting homosexuality as you accept heterosexuality.

When I was teaching sunday school and a member of the baptist church I was for pagans having the same rights and being respected as I did not see any real reason they should not be respected and their path being considered as valid as the christian path. I was not alone in that - several on a board I play on are very open christians who are for being considerate and exploring the pagan religion among others.

I think sometimes that some get a nasty label because of a few idiots. I have know as many people who supported the rights of pagans as against.

Just as I have known as many pagans for christians as against. As a Christian I was for pagans and a pagan I am for Christians. I don't see one being any better or worse than the other in beliefs, etc. You just have "bad" apples. More bad apples in the christian corner because at the moment they do happen to out number other types of "apples". But I am seeing a trend and I am part of a trend that sees pagans as being great people and seeing religious lines blurred - couples becoming duel in their religions and families becoming more accepting of pagan family members, etc. Your seeing the Fundie hold of the Christians lose and the moderates coming through.

Unfort. there are pagans who had really bad experiences with Christians (with cause in most cases) who then want to eliminate the religion as much as some christians want to eliminate the pagans.

 emoticon

---
“Never think that whatever is around you is beyond your comprehension, no matter how complicated it seems.
To attain total freedom, learn how to undo the web of illusion that has convinced you that you are not free…”
6/15/2009, 7:22 pm Link to this post Send Email to KaliMorgan76   Send PM to KaliMorgan76
 
KaliMorgan76 Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Registered user
Global user

Registered: 05-2009
Posts: 64
Reply | Quote
Re: Christianity VS Paganism/Wicca



TexasMadness wrote:

Ah, I read it as they can argue THEIR virtues and the vices of the other.




Is also pretty valid and was part of what I meant - everyone loves to argue - regardless of religion about who is right and who is wrong - that is universal. ACtually that is human. emoticon I don't see to many animals wasting their time arguing about who's better - they either kick butt or move one. But they don't stand around debating all day and then come back again for some more.

---
“Never think that whatever is around you is beyond your comprehension, no matter how complicated it seems.
To attain total freedom, learn how to undo the web of illusion that has convinced you that you are not free…”
6/15/2009, 7:26 pm Link to this post Send Email to KaliMorgan76   Send PM to KaliMorgan76
 
Saijen SilverWolf Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Registered user
Global user

Registered: 10-2004
Location: Upper North East Tennessee
Posts: 3871
Reply | Quote
Re: Christianity VS Paganism/Wicca


[sign in to see URL] understand what you mean now.

Unfortunately, I don't come across very many Christians that feel Paganism has as much right to it's beliefs as they do. I do have a few Christian friends that accept me for who and what I am, and nothing is ever said, one way or the other. I accept them for the choice they have made also. I don't think Christians are wrong in their choice of religion, but many don't know the true meaning of Christianity. When a Christian shuns someone that's different, I have to [sign in to see URL] WOULD JESUS DO. He was friends with a prostitute, he mingled with the dregs of society, as well as with the rich. He made no distinction, unlike many Christians today do.
I have a neighbor that used to be a bad-ass [sign in to see URL]'s now a Christian. I can think of soo many local churches that if he were to walk into them, no one knowing he's 'saved', he would not only get the cold shoulder, but in some churches, he would be asked to leave. He's heavyset, wears his LONG hair in a braid down his back, has a body full of tattoos and doesn't wear 'nice' clothes. His wife is the same as he is. He, his wife and some other bikers actually have a "rolling church". They will ride to chuches that are aware of them to give testimony. Now, I don't know how they would feel about my chosen [sign in to see URL]'re not very [sign in to see URL] my point is about how Christians react to things before getting all the information. So [sign in to see URL] I'm certainly not by any way saying all, but more than not, will judge a book by it's cover. Jesus didn't care about the cover, he only cared about the person. So, why is it then, that while most pagans (note again, I said most, not all) can accept a person regardless, Christians can't do the same?

[sign in to see URL] Kali, no, unfortunately, I've not had the pleasure of being around very many Christians who are for Pagans.
A lady here in town and I were talking one day while waiting to get some labwork done. She mentioned the skirt I had on (it's tie=dyed and [sign in to see URL] of my favorite). I love to wear this skirt when I dance, and I didn't think before I spoke, and mentioned that fact. She wanted to know what kind of dancing. I had to think fast, then decided, well, I'll be as truthful as I can be without actually saying much, so, I said that I enjoy dancing to drum music, or to some Native American type stuff. She immediately got stiff, and said...'so, you're one of THOSE?' I asked her what she meant, and she said, so you're Wiccan. Now, how she got that from the info I gave is beyond me, but I would not lie to her. I told her I am, and she started in on me. I sat and quietly listened as she berated me, asked me questions, etc. I finally told her that I never quite got what I needed from Chrisitanity, and if I could take the good parts of Chrisitianty and combine those with the good parts of Wicca/Paganism, then I'd have the perfect path for me. Thankfully my name got called. Her parting shot was..."I'll pray for you". My parting shot was.."Thank you, I need all the prayers I can get".
THIS is what I run into 99% of the time with Christians. Even one of my closest friends is having a terribly hard time with this. I've know this girl since I was 24, and I'm 50 now. She can't see that I've not changed, only the direction of my religion has. It would be nice to be taken seriously around here. Also would be nice if I didn't have to stay in the dang closet to much around here. Living in the Bible Belt is a royal pain at times, I tell ya!

This is actually off the original topic, but I think this is a good discussion, so if y'all wanna keep it [sign in to see URL] for it.

---
Blessed Be,
~*~ Saijen ~*~

~~*~~ .~~*~~
6/16/2009, 6:00 pm Link to this post Send Email to Saijen SilverWolf   Send PM to Saijen SilverWolf Yahoo
 
KaliMorgan76 Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Registered user
Global user

Registered: 05-2009
Posts: 64
Reply | Quote
Re: Christianity VS Paganism/Wicca


In my last church we had a biker - he was the coolest guy - and he was actually the best representative of the religion - I gotta say he really was. But he to was looked at crosseyed a time or two for his being a biker. I think some people get way to caught up in "looks" or apperance. People naturally asume he has a record, no job and enjoys women, booze and drugs. When in fact he had a job which paid for his bikes, a wife with grown children (same wife for over 30 years), did enjoy an occasional beer but nothing hard core and never touched drugs - he had a fit when he caught his son smoking pot when the boy was a teenager. But because he loves leather and harley's he gets labeled by some.

Sad really.

It sucks that you don't have more positive Christian friends. But it can take a strong Christian to not only be friends (God I have heard so many goofy Christians brag about their "token" pagan friend they are working on saving) but accept a Pagan friend. Thankfully I have meet several but I have meet several such as the one you indicated that were praying for the souls of all the "lost" pagans to return to the fold. I know several Christians who just look down on it period. Others who are friends not because they actually like the person but figure they can "convert" them by being their friend and others who just ignore it. I can handle the ones who just ignore it best of the three. But the people I call friends have to do more than ignore it - they have to be able to handle it - at least when it comes to friends.

As to the general public - I think us younger ones (30's) are more use to seeing colorful individuals so regardless of religion we usually don't flinch or what have you. The older biker at the last church I attended was in your age bracket and he sat in our class (20-30's) because we were much more accepting of people being who they were oppose to thinking Christians had to be stuffy people who spent all day praying for others salvation. Most of those I know who defend or enjoy their pagan friends are 30's and under.

I know since I switched it is the older ones in the area that I have always known that have the biggest reactions - I think that older Christians come from a time when there was only one path and that path was not an option so they don't see it any anything but black and white. While a lot of newer Christians (not the Fundies) are saying I can accept you and this - there is a lot of movements to accept others. There was recently a news report done on how the Buddhist religion is exploding in this country - they are gaining acceptance and even followers of other religions - including large portions of Christians who are embracing both religions/practices. An entire Christian family was attending church and then attending Buddhist ceremonies, had an alter in their house, etc.

I think because we are seeing more and more diversity we are going to start seeing more intermingling and acceptance of younger generations. Heck my kids go to sunday school and don't blink at seeing witches, buddhist, or others of different religions. My daughter figures the Greek Gods (her favorites) helped God when he was just a baby because no one wants to the only one, etc. I have a feeling she will eventually be completely pagan as it suits her but I could be wrong.

There has been a lot of news coverage on interreligious marriages to - pagans married to Christians, pagans married to atheist, etc. I read a great story of a couple that were catholic but the wife never felt happy or connected to her religion so her husband told her to explore religions and find something she did like. She ended up becoming pagan and has his full support. She and he participate in each others religions and their family is brought up with both religions being taught to the kids.

---
“Never think that whatever is around you is beyond your comprehension, no matter how complicated it seems.
To attain total freedom, learn how to undo the web of illusion that has convinced you that you are not free…”
6/16/2009, 7:07 pm Link to this post Send Email to KaliMorgan76   Send PM to KaliMorgan76
 
KaliMorgan76 Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Registered user
Global user

Registered: 05-2009
Posts: 64
Reply | Quote
Re: Christianity VS Paganism/Wicca


Oh, and the biker never had a speeding ticket must less a rap sheet. emoticon

I think you handled the Christian lady rather well - I have not been so kind to those who Pray for my Return of Senses.

---
“Never think that whatever is around you is beyond your comprehension, no matter how complicated it seems.
To attain total freedom, learn how to undo the web of illusion that has convinced you that you are not free…”
6/16/2009, 7:08 pm Link to this post Send Email to KaliMorgan76   Send PM to KaliMorgan76
 
Saijen SilverWolf Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Registered user
Global user

Registered: 10-2004
Location: Upper North East Tennessee
Posts: 3871
Reply | Quote
Re: Christianity VS Paganism/Wicca


With the lady at the hospital, I saw no need for her to see my nasty side. Would have only played into what she believed. And, I have a gentle heart, I hate to get ugly with people, even when they piss me off. I try calm at [sign in to see URL] work up to ugly if I have to.

My mother would have a hissy fit if she knew the path I am on. I talk Christianity with her, and agree with a lot of what she says, but she's one of the ones that would simply have heart failure if she found out. My sister knows, but [sign in to see URL] are close so we don't talk about it. My Dad is another that would have a [sign in to see URL]. I'm no going to test those waters though.
My husband, of course, knows, and he still claims to be a Christian. It's not for me to say if he is or not. He doesn't mind that I do spells in the house, or that I may decide to do a ritual at some point. I just don't do much [sign in to see URL] is too small and I have nowhere private to work.

It's truly hard to walk this path when you're walking it virtually alone. Even though my best friend was my High Priestess, we don't do any rituals together any more. It's just too hard with the way she works, and with 2 people to do some of the things. I truly miss that part of this path, but I'm too scared to say anything to someone I THINK may be like minded, just in case they're not and I end up being 'thrashed' again by someone who thinks they're being well-meaning.
I would love to find, or create a group here in my town of true seekers (not the wanna-be types) that we could do ritual together, and just have fun together. This town is so small that I have come across only 2 others, and neither of them practice outside of their own homes.

Gotta love livin in the Bible Belt LOL

---
Blessed Be,
~*~ Saijen ~*~

~~*~~ .~~*~~
6/17/2009, 4:05 am Link to this post Send Email to Saijen SilverWolf   Send PM to Saijen SilverWolf Yahoo
 
muladzh Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Registered user
Global user

Registered: 10-2008
Posts: 2068
Reply | Quote
Re: Christianity VS Paganism/Wicca


I have difficulty adding to this thread, because of the tolerance that I, as a walker on the Ancient Path, have towards others right to believe in anything, irrespective of how stupid the belief may be.. emoticon

The most obvious difference I notice is that I am not scared of them.. They are very scared of me.

---

7/27/2009, 3:44 pm Link to this post Send Email to muladzh   Send PM to muladzh Blog
 


Add a reply

Page:  1  2  3 





You are not logged in (login)