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Queenyforever Profile
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Possible Unanswerable question here...


How do you all, or what do you all say when someone say's Wicca/Paganism, even Shamanism, etc. are not for real. That we have no "Proof" of any of the supernatural stuff.....of the Goddesses, Gods, Spirit Guides, Totem animals. demons, creatures that walk among us......nothing?
I'm not an educated woman. Barely graduated high school.(Mostly I think they gave me the diploma to get me the hell out of there! emoticon )
And I have a hard time putting into words what I KNOW to be fact in my heart. emoticon
I do on occasion have a rare moment when my Spirit Guide Alara takes over my typing and says what I can not. But she seems to do that most often when someone needs consoling...not when I NEED to make a point.

So......what do you answer with? Or is that an unanswerable question? emoticon

---

*The noblest art is that of making others happy ~ P.T. Barnum.*
'Stay where there are songs."....Gypsy proverb~

4/15/2011, 8:26 pm Link to this post Send Email to Queenyforever   Send PM to Queenyforever Blog
 
Justbec Profile
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Re: Possible Unanswerable question here...


Well you could say the same thing I say to those who believe in God and want to preach at me and tell me how damn'd I am for not believing.... Show me YOUR proof he exists. Got pictures of heaven? Anyone ever met God?

Frankly I find it funny that someone would question you faith in Pagan beliefs and use that as a reason. Good luck Queeny

---

Paradise Lost, we're moving to Facebook!

4/15/2011, 11:20 pm Link to this post Send Email to Justbec   Send PM to Justbec Blog
 
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Re: Possible Unanswerable question here...


I tend to say something like: "Anything is possible. It is possible it's just an illusion of the mind. But it's also possible it's true. And I like following what I believe is true just as you should follow what you believe is true."

I come from a family of scientists. I have met with open scorn for mentioning something like EFT and acupuncture. I no longer talk to them about the Law of Attraction and Shamanism. I learned to accept that others cannot and will not believe. It's not my job to convince them, and so I will leave those alone. But nobody can stop me from smiling inside and thanking the universe / god / goddess for everything they do for me. emoticon

---
- Firlefanz

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Hannah Steenbock
Hannah Steenbock's Forum
4/16/2011, 8:33 pm Link to this post Send Email to Firlefanz   Send PM to Firlefanz Blog
 
Saijen SilverWolf1 Profile
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Re: Possible Unanswerable question here...


Queeny, I'm with Bec if the person is Christian. And, if they say something to the effect that the proof is all around in things like the trees, flowers, etc, say that to your knowledge, that seeing growing things is not proof of the existance of a God, or any other diety.
If they are atheist, just tell them how sorry you feel for them that they have no belief system what-so-ever. As for proof, I don't think any religious group can actully provide tangible proof of the diety's existance that they believe in. The Bible says that Faith is not in the proof, but in the believing....faith is just that....FAITH.
The next time you are asked to provide proof, counter them to disprove it.
I wish there was a clear-cut answer, but unfortunately if there is one, I don't know it! Good luck to any and all who come up against this dilema!!

---
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"
~~@Saijen@~~
4/17/2011, 3:20 am Link to this post Send Email to Saijen SilverWolf1   Send PM to Saijen SilverWolf1 Yahoo
 
muladzh Profile
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Re: Possible Unanswerable question here...


Very rarely I get that line thrown at me. If the person making the statement is seeking, I invite them to spend a couple of days with me - in that time they will accept that proof was given.

If the person is critical then I agree with them, and leave. If the person is christian I say nothing at all because those folk can be dangerous.

(I just had a bad run in with such people, but they believed in it and didn't want me in their desert.)

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4/17/2011, 6:26 am Link to this post Send Email to muladzh   Send PM to muladzh Blog
 
Saijen SilverWolf1 Profile
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Re: Possible Unanswerable question here...


Their loss, Muladzh. I would welcome you as a neighbor, regardless of my beliefs..simply because you are such a wonderfully caring person. It's too bad they didn't get to know you before they judged! Karma is a !@#$, and it will come back to bite them in the ass.....I assure you!

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"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"
~~@Saijen@~~
4/18/2011, 3:15 am Link to this post Send Email to Saijen SilverWolf1   Send PM to Saijen SilverWolf1 Yahoo
 
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Re: Possible Unanswerable question here...


My favorite is to just smile and say well they say heaven is above and hell below right? Well the earth is round therefore heaven is above: earth is below making it hell. But hey when we are both dead we will see who's smiling.

---
Love and Light

tree



May your journey be full of happiness and blessings
4/18/2011, 5:55 pm Link to this post Send Email to playfultree   Send PM to playfultree Yahoo
 
Queenyforever Profile
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Re: Possible Unanswerable question here...


Sorry to dump this on you and run...I was gone all weekend. emoticon


Actually I was asking this because the person really seemed interested in learning, (not so much, becoming Pagan/Wiccan...just learning about the religion) and I was trying to find a way.........a different and definitive way of saying, "you just have to open your heart, ask the Goddess to come in and believe it with every fiber of your body."
But, as I don't do any rituals and such....I had no way of 'teaching' said person how to 'open their heart'....it's easy to say, we all think we do that. But it's actually harder to do than we think.
But I did answer that someday perhaps we'd meet in Summerland, and I'd show them my faith.

Then I was asked how I knew my Goddess, and my spirit guide. How I found them and when I tried to explain, it ended up being how our minds can play tricks on us, how if we believe something bad enough, it will be real in our minds....and I could not come back to those statements. emoticon


Very rarely I get that line thrown at me. If the person making the statement is seeking, I invite them to spend a couple of days with me - in that time they will accept that proof was given.

If the person is critical then I agree with them, and leave. If the person is christian I say nothing at all because those folk can be dangerous.

(I just had a bad run in with such people, but they believed in it and didn't want me in their desert.)



Muladzh, I'm with Saijen...I'd love to have you as my neighbor.

Perhaps you don't get that 'question' thrown at you often, because you exude experience and wisdom, those you meet feel this energy....instead of like me, almost childlike giddiness. And yet uncertainty.

I feel so very deeply that I am supposed to make people aware of the Wiccan/Pagan religion.....for some reason that crops up everywhere and my Spirit guide leads me into these discussions....but leaves me on my own accord more often than not! I just don't understand, that if this is something that is my Path....why is my path full of downed trees and bramble bushes. emoticon

---

*The noblest art is that of making others happy ~ P.T. Barnum.*
'Stay where there are songs."....Gypsy proverb~

4/18/2011, 6:29 pm Link to this post Send Email to Queenyforever   Send PM to Queenyforever Blog
 
Saijen SilverWolf1 Profile
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Re: Possible Unanswerable question here...


Queeny, let me say, first of all: ALL paths, regardless of religion or denomination, are full of downed trees and brambles. Without them, we'd not learn how to navigate the path to our best advantage.

I have had someone ask me how I knew when Kiya was with me. I told them the story of when we were cleaning the office we used to do on weekends. It took me a while to come to terms with the fact that I was hearing her 'in my head' I thought, for a while, I was making up the things/questions/conversations, in my head, until I realized I was getting things I had no way of knowing unless it was coming from someone/thing that has lived it, or lived during that time period. I have since learned to stop questioning things so much, and just go with the flow.

Maybe, if this person understands how Christians 'do it'...you can use that to your advantage...because it's the same type influence. You just have to believe....have faith. That, alone, is hard to explain to someone who's never fully believed in something they can't touch, see or physically feel. Even a Christian has a hard time with this...how do you tell someone just to 'believe'? The best any of us can do is to explain how we feel on the path we are on...regardless if you do the rites and rituals or not. The path isn't about the rites and rituals, it's about how we feel, what we do about things, how we respond to situations in our lives, it's about doing better by the Mother, loving and living in nature and nurturing nature, and each other to the best of our abilities. Something all people should do, regardless of what religion/denomination they choose to live in...just happens that most in the Pagan path go further than others in this direction.

One way to help people with this... you all know I am big on Mandalas. Have the person take some time, walk around in nature and pick up items that 'speak' to them. After they gather 20-30 items or so, depending on size, have them create a Mandala with them, to focus on. Ask them to create a journal entry for each item...write down WHY that item spoke to them. WHAT that item made them feel. And anything else they wish to put about that item. This is a good way to gently get people to, in a way, 'walk the path' to just kind of feel what many of us feel naturally. It's also a good way to regain our own balance when we kind of fall. It's much like studying the Bible...just more hands on. Once they get the items into a Mandala, they need to concentrate on the whole of it, rather than the individual items...what does the WHOLE say to them? What does it make them feel?

If the items are too large/heavy to put on a piece of cardstock, they can do a drawing of the item. doesn't have to be perfect..just enough that they can recognize what they drew...and sometimes that alone is a good thing to do, as it causes them to have to study the item in deeper detail.
I know this doesn't answer the question as you asked it..but sometimes, action works better than word. If the person doesn't want to 'go to all that trouble' they really didn't want a full blown answer, they wanted an easy answer..and there is not an easy answer...for any path or religion.

Blessings to you as you work to help this person find some answers...if they are willing to do the work. emoticon emoticon

---
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"
~~@Saijen@~~
4/18/2011, 8:58 pm Link to this post Send Email to Saijen SilverWolf1   Send PM to Saijen SilverWolf1 Yahoo
 
Queenyforever Profile
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Re: Possible Unanswerable question here...



One way to help people with this... you all know I am big on Mandalas. Have the person take some time, walk around in nature and pick up items that 'speak' to them. After they gather 20-30 items or so, depending on size, have them create a Mandala with them, to focus on. Ask them to create a journal entry for each item...write down WHY that item spoke to them. WHAT that item made them feel. And anything else they wish to put about that item. This is a good way to gently get people to, in a way, 'walk the path' to just kind of feel what many of us feel naturally. It's also a good way to regain our own balance when we kind of fall. It's much like studying the Bible...just more hands on. Once they get the items into a Mandala, they need to concentrate on the whole of it, rather than the individual items...what does the WHOLE say to them? What does it make them feel?

If the items are too large/heavy to put on a piece of cardstock, they can do a drawing of the item. doesn't have to be perfect..just enough that they can recognize what they drew...and sometimes that alone is a good thing to do, as it causes them to have to study the item in deeper detail.
I know this doesn't answer the question as you asked it..but sometimes, action works better than word. If the person doesn't want to 'go to all that trouble' they really didn't want a full blown answer, they wanted an easy answer..and there is not an easy answer...for any path or religion.



Thank you Saijen! I completely forgot about how easily it is to make a Mandala! And how doing so makes one focus on the inner self!
YOU ARE BRILLIANT!!! emoticon

That was what I needed....a simple idea, a way to get a person 'thinking' about the whole Universe and yet thinking about you in that Universe...

Like my Inspirational saying this week at Queeny's says...


"Although its light is wide and great, the Moon is reflected in a puddle one inch wide. The whole Moon and the entire sky is reflected in one dew drop on the grass." — Dogen



Thanks for the Idea HON!! emoticon


Oh and I am SO NOT bringing up how Christians 'do it'...cause then we get the whole "BIBLE, Dead sea scrolls, yadda, yadda, yadda" written history stuff....and how we have none of that, even though we've 'supposedly' been here waaaaaaaaaaay longer!
Nope...staying away from that one. emoticon

Last edited by Queenyforever, 4/18/2011, 9:42 pm


---

*The noblest art is that of making others happy ~ P.T. Barnum.*
'Stay where there are songs."....Gypsy proverb~

4/18/2011, 9:39 pm Link to this post Send Email to Queenyforever   Send PM to Queenyforever Blog
 


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